Lawfare's Quinta Jurecic on what's next for the January 6th Committee and the steps Congress can take to safeguard American democracy.
U.S. leaders react to an apparent terror attack in Nice, France that killed at least 80. Citing the tragedy, Donald Trump delays the announcement of his Vice Presidential pick. Ahead of next week’s Republican National Convention, new polls show the race between Trump and Hillary Clinton is tightening. In a speech in New Hampshire, Bernie Sanders endorses Clinton and vows to help keep Trump out of the White House. And across the country, a week of mourning: funerals are held for Dallas police officers killed in last week’s shooting, and for Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, the two men shot by police in Minnesota and Louisiana. A panel of journalists joins Diane for analysis of the week’s top national news stories.
- Sheryl Gay Stolberg National correspondent, The New York Times
- Abby Phillip National political reporter, The Washington Post
- Josh Kraushaar Political editor, National Journal
Video: Will Justice Ginsburg's Comments On Trump Damage Her Reputation?
Clip: How Recent Tragedies Might Impact U.S. Race Relations
Video: The Problem With Presidential Polls
Video: What's Next For Bernie Sanders?
MS. DIANE REHMThanks for joining us. I'm Diane Rehm. Racial tensions continue to flare this week as thousands mourn at funerals for Dallas police officers, as well as for Philando Castille and Alton Sterling. New polls show nearly 70 percent of Americans feel race relations in this country are poor, the same level as in the early '90s. And Trump prepares to select his running mate.
MS. DIANE REHMJoining me in the studio for the domestic hour of the Friday News Roundup, Sheryl Gay Stohlberg of the New York Times, Abby Phillip of The Washington Post and Josh Kraushaar of the National Journal. You can watch this hour of the Friday News Roundup. We are video streaming. You can go to drshow.org to see this hour. You can call us at 800-433-8850, if you'd like to join the program.
MS. DIANE REHMSend us an email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Send us a tweet or join us on Facebook. Welcome to all of you.
MS. SHERYL GAY STOLBERGThank you.
MS. ABBY PHILLIPThank you. Thanks for having us.
MR. JOSH KRAUSHAARGood to be here.
REHMAbby Phillip, Donald Trump postponed the announcement of his vice presidential choice because of what's happened in Nice. The question comes down to Pence has until noon today to make a decision about running again for governor.
PHILLIPThat's right. He has his own deadlines and that's going to put a lot of pressure on him to make a decision about whether he wants to take a chance. Now, you know, Republicans are indicating that Trump has indicated and his aides have indicated to them that Pence is likely to be the choice, but he has also not made a complete decision yet. So that means there's a lot of uncertainty between today and tomorrow. Pence until noon to decide what to do.
PHILLIPIf he chooses to run for reelection, he cannot serve in both roles at the same time. So he cannot be vice president and also be running for his reelection race. And if he chooses not to, then he puts down ballot Republicans in a kind of a tough position. They have to decide who's going to actually do that instead of him. So he has some tough choices to make.
STOLBERGYou know, I think when we take the big picture -- this has been a fascinating selection process for Donald Trump, very unusual. First of all, he doesn't have a wide array of choices for his VP. Many Republicans, mainstream Republicans, are running away from Donald Trump. We're seeing that a lot of them, a lot of elected officials, senators, are not going to be attending the convention. Likely contenders for the vice presidential slot, his competitors in the very crowded Republican field weren't interested.
STOLBERGJohn Kasich, for instance, of Ohio, a swing state governor would've been a great vice presidential candidate. You know, wouldn't even hear of it. So Trump's choices were few and they seemed to narrow down on about four. There was Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, former congressman, Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker, Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey, Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama. And I think Trump has to pick someone who complements him and Mike Pence complements him in some important ways.
STOLBERGHe's a true blue movement conservative, which Trump is not. He is fiercely opposed to abortion. Same sex marriage has been an issue for him. He's opposed. Newt Gingrich has been more moderate on those issues. And also, if you think about Gingrich, who also seemed really in the running, Gingrich is a big personality, like Trump. Gingrich in the 1990s was someone who was viewed as upending civility in Washington. His language was viewed as very harsh. He's almost a forerunner to Trump.
STOLBERGSo for a lot of reasons, the Pence pick makes sense, but I think as is always the case with Donald Trump, it's last minute and we don't know what he'll do.
REHMAnd Josh, how would Pence actually appeal to voters?
KRAUSHAARWell, he would help reassure disaffected conservatives who don’t like Donald Trump to at least possibly think about supporting the Republican ticket. But the big red flag for Mike Pence is a question of loyalty and the two other finalists, Newt Gingrich and Chris Christie are about as loyal as you get. I mean, Christie, especially.
REHMAnd Pence was not in the beginning.
KRAUSHAARPence endorsed Ted Cruz in Indiana. Didn't do it particularly enthusiastically and he also is someone who has his own long term ambitions at play, whereas Christie and Gingrich not so much. So Pence -- what if Donald Trump makes another controversial comment. Is Pence obliged to defend him? 100 percent. Or will we see a situation where the presidential nominee and the vice presidential nominee could be at odds with each other. I don't think that's as outside of a possibility as it would be in any other circumstance for a presidential candidate.
REHMDo you think that Trump is using the Nice attack because he, himself, has some doubts, Abby?
PHILLIPI think the timing is certainly convenient. Around 7:30 p.m. last night, Donald Trump essentially said he had not yet made a decision. I mean, this was right as the Nice attack was happening, almost simultaneously. So even if he were to go forward with it today as he'd originally planned, he was not set on a candidate yet. And, you know, the runners seem to all be floating toward New York City where the announcement was scheduled to be, but no decision was made yet.
PHILLIPAnd I want to say one more thing about Pence and also about Gingrich. Donald Trump, Jr. and Donald Trump's family is closely involved in this process, but he made a very important point, which is that the Trump family believes that they need someone who understands how politics and government works and that's one of the reason why Pence and someone like Gingrich has risen to the top of this list. They understand that Trump has a weakness there, that he doesn't really get how to make the kinds of deals that you need to make in Washington.
PHILLIPHe knows how to make deals, but just not of the political sort. So they're paying very close attention to that sort of thing.
STOLBERGYeah, and I think with respect to Nice, I think Donald Trump is maybe wisely delaying for two reasons. One, he wants to see if this event changes the complexion of the debate at all and, two, it would -- his announcement would clearly be overshadowed by this awful, awful, awful tragedy that is happening and he doesn't want that. He wants this to be a moment for his campaign. It's an introduction of his first big choice as a candidate, the choice of a running mate.
STOLBERGAnd I'm sure he, you know, he wants a little -- he wants to be able to do that in his own way and at least shine some spotlight on it.
REHMAnd speaking of Nice, there's certainly security issues in Cleveland as well, Josh.
KRAUSHAARYeah. I mean, if you talk to the Republican delegates, a lot of them are on edge just because of everything that's going on in the world. And national security will be a major theme the first day at the Republican convention. Trump talking about Benghazi and trying to criticize Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration by extension on their positions and the record on national security. But it was striking last night in the midst of all the horror taking place in Nice, Donald Trump called Fox News twice in less than an hour.
KRAUSHAARYou know, this is a time where a lot of voters are looking for presidential leadership, especially from Trump, who is a total newcomer to politics. And he called two different Fox News shows, said it was...
KRAUSHAARTo say we were at war, using a lot of language that I don't think his advisors may have recommended. It was certainly the old Trump more than the more presidential Trump that's been on stage the last week or two. So Hillary Clinton, for what it's worth, followed suit and she also called in to several of the cable news shows, also trying to set a muscular tone in her reaction to Nice. So national security is going to be a major, major theme in this presidential election and both candidates are trying to figure out where the public is on the tragedy.
REHMSo you're saying we're going to hear a lot about Benghazi and the emails and all of that, Abby?
PHILLIPAbsolutely. One of the things...
REHMThat first night.
PHILLIPYeah. And one of the things that we saw Donald Trump start to do, and this is something that he hasn't done up until this point, is frame an argument for his candidacy as opposed to Hillary Clinton's and that is that he is the law and order president. And that's really critical because that's the frame by which they're going to bring up Benghazi, bring up the emails and suggest that the Democrats and that Hillary Clinton are lawless and that they're producing chaos, that the things that we're seeing in Nice are signs of the kinds of chaos that Democrats and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have all tried to create.
PHILLIPSo Donald Trump is making this argument and he's been actually following through on it, which is not always the case for him. And we're likely to see them reinforce that as we go into the convention next week.
STOLBERGAnd I think national security will be an important issue, but so, too, are domestic issue. I mean, we are in a time in our country where we have just come off these shootings of black men in Minneapolis and in Orlando. We've had the shootings in Dallas, the police shootings. And Donald Trump, by his rhetoric, has elevated this discussion so there are concerns in Cleveland as well about protesters coming to the convention to oppose Trump and, you know, there's going to be intense security there for those reasons as well.
REHMOf course. We should say that Ohio has open carry gun laws.
STOLBERGAbsolutely. And that is a concern.
REHMEven though guns are not going to be permitted inside the arena itself, but what about the perimeters.
STOLBERGThere's a 1.7 perimeter outside the area where the events will be taking place in Cleveland. I was actually just in Cleveland last week and they're revitalizing the downtown. They're opening a beautiful new plaza. And electricians were there on that plaza installing security cameras. And a big concern is that police are going to honor these open carry laws and people will be able to carry their guns if they are legally allowed to inside the perimeter.
REHMAnd some Cleveland law enforcement people have said the city is not ready to host an event of this magnitude. Short break and when we come back, your calls, comments, stay with us.
MS. HILLARY CLINTONIt's clear we are at war with these terrorist groups and what they represent. It's a different kind of war and we need to be smart about how we wage it and win it.
REHMAnd that was Hillary Clinton speaking with Anderson Cooper about the attack in Nice. What does she mean, we have to be smarter here, Josh?
KRAUSHAARWell, politically speaking, she's certainly concerned about members of the party, members of the Democratic base that don't want to see the president get too reactive in terms of a terrorist attack. But she used the word war several times in that interview. And I think, when you compare President Obama's statement that he put out last night, it was sort of the rote statement that you expect from the White House after all these terrorist attacks, saying that his thoughts are with the families, that we're ready to support the French wherever they need it.
KRAUSHAARBut Hillary Clinton's comments on TV were much tougher. She used the war -- word war many times. She sounded like she was ready to have a more muscular response to what's going on overseas and also at home. So that's a big -- that disconnect between Clinton and Obama is going to loom large in this presidential campaign.
STOLBERGBut specifically what she means is that she would be more focused on intelligence gathering. That -- she's trying to draw a contrast between herself and Donald Trump. Where Donald Trump is talking about we're being in a world war and he would use troops, she's saying, you know, she doesn't want the United States to be drawn into a ground war with Syria. And in her rhetoric, she's drawing a distinction. She went on in that interview -- she was asked, is this radical Islam? And she says it doesn't matter what we call it, we're at war with radical jihadists who use Islam to recruit and radicalize others. So what we're seeing are these two very different foreign policy visions of the two candidates in their response to what's happening in Nice.
PHILLIPAnd I think that Clinton and her campaign are very aware that they don't want this to become about rhetoric. So she's saying things like we are at war, which is language that we often actually hear from Donald Trump, because they actually believe -- they want to project that it doesn't matter how you talk about it, what matters is what you do. And from a practical perspective, in terms of what she wants to actually do, there is actually not that much of a difference between her and President Obama in terms of distinct actions.
REHMAnd now, let's hear what Donald Trump had to say to Bill O'Reilly.
MR. BILL O'REILLYWould you go to Congress and ask for a Declaration of War?
MR. DONALD TRUMPI would. I would. This is war. If you look at it, this is war, coming from all different parts. And, frankly, it's war and we're dealing without -- with people without uniforms. You know, in the old days, you would have uniforms. You knew what you were fighting. These people -- we're allowing people into our country who we have no idea where they are, where they're from, who they are. They have no paperwork. They have no documentation in many cases. And Hillary Clinton wants to allow 550 percent more in than even Obama.
REHMNot only does he use the word war again and again, but it's also a war on immigration.
STOLBERGYes it is. And that's yet another area where we're seeing these sharply divergent views between the two candidates. So I suspect what we're going to see out of this Nice event is really just, frankly, a hardening of the two candidates' positions and also a hardening of the divide within America about how we should approach these issues.
REHMAnd it's interesting, Abby, that just before this convention begins, we have a series of new polls showing that the race between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is tightening.
PHILLIPIt appears so. And at least in some -- at least in the short term, there is an impact being seen of Clinton taking a real hit on her trustworthiness and credibility, particularly among independent voters, after the FBI Director James Comey criticized her very sharply for her handling of her emails. That's a long-term problem for Hillary Clinton and her campaign knows that. She is already not in a great position when it comes to voters' trust. And that statement, 15 minutes, from James Comey really reinforced the idea that she didn't do the right thing and didn't tell the truth about it.
PHILLIPThe question is, is Donald Trump going to be able to solidify this. He's coming up against a lot of might -- what might be good news. His vice presidential selection, the Republican Convention, both of which could give him a bump. The -- he has to hold on to that in order to really cause the (word?) to tighten in a critical period in August.
REHMWhat do you think, Josh, that this attack in Nice could do to this poll taking that's out there?
KRAUSHAARI don't think it fundamentally changes the race. And the New York Times/CBS poll that just came out this week showed both candidates virtually tied when it came to who can best handle national security and terrorism. So it's remarkable how polarized we are as a country and we can't even agree on the same issues that are important to voters. Whereas, Republicans rank terrorism and national security number one in many polls, which is remarkable given that the economy usually is at the top of that list. Whereas, Democrats rank it as a secondary issue in many polls, including alongside the environment and climate change and other issues.
KRAUSHAARSo Republicans rank this as one of the most serious issues. You can expect Trump to constantly be beating that drum at the convention in Cleveland. And the polls show this is a very tight race. This is not going to be a landslide election. It's going to be a competitive race where Clinton holds some fundamental advantages, but it's not a race she can pull away from.
REHMBut then another poll by your newspaper, Sheryl, shows -- and CBS -- indicates more than half of all voters are not satisfied with either major party candidate.
STOLBERGYes. And I -- that is true. I just want to get back to these Clinton and Trump polls and an indicator of how the -- divided we are, that three of the most important swing states -- Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania -- the two candidates are in a statistical dead heat. Quinnipiac put out a poll this week showing that I think in Florida and Pennsylvania, Trump is slightly ahead, but within the margin of error. And in Ohio, they are dead even. So...
REHMOn the other hand...
STOLBERGOn the swingiest of swing states.
REHM...let us remember the polls from 2012. Abby, remind us.
PHILLIPAt this point in 2012, you know, Barack Obama had, what, like a two point lead over Mitt Romney. It was very narrow, within the margin of error. And also noteworthy, out today an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll showing Clinton with some decent sized leads in some of these same battleground states. So we're dealing with a situation that's really hard to evaluate.
PHILLIPIt's just -- and part of the problem is that we cannot agree on what the electorate is. And as long as that's the case, we're always going to have polls that are incredibly disparate and giving us different results. What we can count on is that battleground states are battleground states for a reason. They will be close up to the very end.
REHMJosh, you've still got a group of delegates going to Cleveland, who are going to try to oust Trump as the nominee.
KRAUSHAARThey suffered a big defeat yesterday at the Rules Committee meeting before the convention, where the rump of anti-Trump at all costs delegates suffered a defeat on every vote that was taken. And they're not going to be able to open and unbind the delegates. The anti-Trump movement has essentially suffered its final defeat. And it's because Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC, and even Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have said openly they do not want any chaos at the convention. They'd rather have a flawed Donald Trump at the top of the ticket and an unstable alliance between the Trump and anti-Trump forces within the party, rather than blowing everything up and risking even more chaos in the aftermath.
REHMJosh, what did you make of Bernie Sanders' endorsement of Hillary Clinton?
KRAUSHAARI thought it was a very self-indulgent speech in New Hampshire. He did finally get to an endorsement and, to his credit, did -- gave her enthusiastic support. But the big question to me is going forward. Does he talk more about Hillary Clinton or does he talk more about his movement that he previewed in that New Hampshire speech. And so far, the early returns suggest he's more concerned about the movement, more than the party.
REHMWhat do you think, Abby?
PHILLIPWell, I saw Bernie Sanders give a speech the day after he endorsed Hillary Clinton. He was at the LULAC Latin American conference. And he gave a version of his stump speech. It was almost exactly the same. But what struck me about it was the way in which Bernie Sanders is able to articulate the core values of the Democratic Party and draw people to that idea. So in some ways this could work to Hillary Clinton's benefit, for people who don't trust her personally, who don't think that she's maybe a good leader or a leader that they want, Bernie Sanders could serve as someone who can just draw them to the party as a whole...
PHILLIP...versus to Hillary Clinton as a person. And that might just be what Democrats need in this cycle.
STOLBERGYou know, I think a lot in politics is driven by who people are -- who they are at their core. Bernie Sanders is a pit bull. And he's a believer. And he is -- has spent his lifetime motivated by these ideals. He was a hippie in Vermont. He ran as a Socialist mayor. He's done it his own way and he's not going to let go and -- of that and fall-in behind a party line. He'll go out and he'll campaign for Hillary Clinton and he'll endorse her. But you're already hearing, he's going to start these three organizations. And let's face it, he tapped into something in the Democratic electorate. And he...
STOLBERG...he has energized a lot of people. And so he is being reinforced by the fact that people are responding to his beliefs.
REHMBut the question will be, how many of those people he energized will, in fact, come to the polls?
STOLBERGAnd will he energize them to her?
PHILLIPRight. I mean, it's a big question, especially among young voters. I mean, this is -- of all the voters that Bernie Sanders has in his coalition, young voters have been the most stubborn about not coming back into the Democratic fold and backing Hillary Clinton. Because the trust issues for them are really, really important. And Bernie Sanders has to ease them into this process. And some of that is about asking them to put their personal disdain aside and look toward these sort of broader values that framed his candidacy. That's why these organizations are actually really important, because he has to keep them in his fold in order to bring them into Hillary Clinton's.
REHMLet's talk for a moment about Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who came out yesterday saying she had made a mistake in her earlier comments about Donald Trump. What did you think of all this, Josh?
KRAUSHAARBoy, it was striking to hear a sitting Supreme Court justice openly criticize a presidential nominee. And it was equally as stunning for her several days later to issue that apology to Donald Trump, who clearly she has no love lost with, given her statements. It's a demonstration of just how politically polarized we are, where the court has always been sort of that a nonpartisan institution, that we could at least have that expectation that they won't be -- no matter what they personally think, the justices do, that there won't be politics seeping into the court, even though it does happen at times. But the fact that she was so open about her comments really, really puts the court in a more politicized position.
REHMAnd when NPR's Nina Totenberg talked with her this morning, she said no more and no less about that apology than she had actually written. But Donald Trump has called on her to resign, even implying that she's losing some of her ability to think straight.
PHILLIPThis was a pretty clean win for Donald Trump, which is pretty rare. You know, the truth of the matter is that we are in an election season in which, at the end of the day, the Supreme Court could end up deciding this election, as they have in the past. And it's really important for the justices to remain neutral, not because they have to but because it's likely that they will be faced with these actors in the future, whether it's in December or in their presidencies going forward. And I think, you know, Ruth Bader Ginsburg issued an apology, but she didn't say that she didn't believe any of the things that she said.
REHMAbby Phillip, she's national political reporter for The Washington Post. And you're listening to "The Diane Rehm Show." Sheryl, do you think there's any lasting damage to Ruth Bader Ginsburg's reputation?
STOLBERGWell, that's a good question. You know, Abby said it was a pretty clean win for Donald Trump. Here's how I knew. The New York Times editorial page headline said, Donald Trump is right about Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Three words I never thought I would, or four that I never thought I would read in The New York Times opinion page headline, Donald Trump is right. I don't know the answer to that. She is a respected and beloved jurist. Young women -- my young daughters adore her. She's got this nickname, The Notorious R.B.G. It's a riff on the rapper, The Notorious B.I.G.
STOLBERGSo Ruth Bader Ginsburg has a huge fan club among liberals and progressives and among women. She's, for many, many years, been admired. So, will it, you know, it does injure her, to the extent that she's worse off now than she was before she said it. Will it make lasting damage to her reputation, one built up over decades and decades of work in the law and on the court? I don't know.
REHMAbby Phillip, it's been a week of funerals, after lots of violence here in this country, and police officers memorialized, as well as two black men shot by police officers. What do you make of the violence that's going on here?
PHILLIPIt seems very much like the country is just at a crossroads, at the point at which all of these brewing tensions are coming to a head. And now that almost every one of the people -- the officers and the two black men who were shot and killed last week -- have been laid to rest, it's -- we're approaching the time where we can take stock of what's happening. I think the dual tragedies actually forced both sides to really see the other side. I mean, I think we saw some remarkable reflection coming out of the political world in particular.
PHILLIPI mean, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott got up on the House -- on the Senate floor and he talked about his experience as a black man being profiled on Capitol Hill, walking into the Senate chambers...
REHMWith his Senate button on.
PHILLIP...with his pin on. And I just think that those are the conversations that we would not have been having, had we not been forced to this unfortunate and tragic moment. It's going to take a lot more. But it's a beginning that hopefully will lead to something positive.
KRAUSHAARI was struck. And in that same CBS/New York Times poll that, even though the candidates are very closely matched in almost all the issues, even immigration, on the issue of race relations Hillary Clinton had a 40-point lead over Donald Trump. And her speech in Springfield, Ill., this week, focusing on unity, focusing on trying to come together, as Abby was just talking about, really gives her an advantage. This is the tie-breaker aspect of the race, that her tone is much more consistent with where the American public is. And when you have Trump's very reactive style of shoot-from-the-hip approach, that's a very dangerous approach in terms of politics.
REHMJosh Kraushaar, he's political editor for the National Journal. When we come back, it's time to open the phones. I look forward to hearing your questions, comments. Stay with us.
REHMAnd welcome back. Time to open the phones, 800-433-8850. First to Adolpho, in Hobart, Ind. You're on the air.
ADOLPHOGood morning, Diane. I have been listening to this show for about almost a decade now. And it's -- I was sad when I heard that you were going to be off the air in the next few months.
ADOLPHOThat being said, I am a truck driver and I am also an immigrant. Ever since 9/11, the industry has been under a lot of scrutiny because exactly what happened in France last night. And I was just thinking about what this will mean in the United States for the trucking industry. Now, are we going to be profiled as immigrants in the industry or -- it's going to be tough. I know that is going to be tough. And…
REHMIt's a good question, Sheryl.
STOLBERGYou know, I think it's an excellent question. It's a question I've never heard raised before from someone in the trucking industry. But it speaks to, I think, the level of fear and anxiety that all of us as Americans have about what is happening to our country. To a country, sort of, that aspires to be a place of love and tolerance founded in -- rooted in, you know, religious freedom.
STOLBERGThe fear that we all have that these events, that are so spinning out of control, are gonna impact our daily lives in ways that so many of us can't even imagine. I certainly never would have thought, had this caller not called…
STOLBERG…to say that a trucker might be profiled.
REHMAdolpho, thanks for your contribution today. And let's go to Robin in Asheville, N.C. You're on the air.
ROBINGood morning. Actually more it's more commentary about we're hearing from the Republican leadership that they had concerns about Donald Trump. And yet, they continue to support him. All the while they're citing Hillary Clinton's untrustworthiness to lead and as a reason for her to not be elected. My question and comment is how trustworthy is an individual when we see Donald Trump delaying the choice of his vice president?
ROBINHe's delayed it to the last day that Governor Pence could file for reelection in Indiana, because legally he can't run for two offices at the same time. He also, last night, stated he had not made his final final decision. And now he's delaying under the guise of the terrorist attacks in Nice. And is this really a trustworthy individual who could be so cavalier with political and personal life of his running mate?
KRAUSHAARWell, I think that's a very important observation. And look, this could have been, this unveiling of the running mate today, now rescheduled, could have been an important moment to really have Donald Trump speak with his running mate about national security and talk about how they're going to fight ISIS and to fight extremism. He missed that opportunity. And his campaign manager, Paul Manafort, said today that Trump was very emotional in reacting to the incident. So I don't think it really underscores his presidential leadership. And that's his biggest weakness going into this convention.
REHMBut does it indicate a change of thought on his part?
PHILLIPThere's no indication just yet that that's quite what has happened. And I -- it does like of the candidates that he's considering, I don't think any of them would really rise significantly to the top in response to a situation like this. But Trump also has an opportunity to really think about the kind of leader he wants to be. And maybe do that kind of thinking in conjunction with the person who's going to be his running mate.
REHMWell, that's what's interesting about this email from Peggy, who says, "It's amazing to me that Trump is seeking his children's advice in his vice presidential choice." She says, "I've never heard of that before."
STOLBERGWell, that is interesting. But, of course, we've often seen candidates seek their spouse's advice. He respects his children. People in politics do make family decisions, perhaps they are not always so public about the fact that they seek counsel from family members. Trump has been.
REHMAll right. Let's go to York, Pa. And, Matt, you're on the air.
MATTHey, Diane. Best wishes in your retirement. (Unintelligible)
REHMThank you. Though, I'm not really retiring.
REHMI'm just stepping away from the microphone.
MATTFrom the microphone.
MATTGotcha. Okay. Well, again, best wishes…
MATT…in the change. So I'm a delegate to the convention in Cleveland. And I think this is interesting because a lot of folks aren't quite sure the character of Donald Trump or how he's going to behave moving forward. Do we know -- does anybody really know off the top of their head who Lincoln's vice president was? And I ask that question because there's something that I read earlier this week.
MATTYou know, I would almost rather have reaction here. I'd almost rather have leadership than plotting. There's a great deal of mistrust with the candidate, you know, from the Democrats. And I would like the panelists to ping in on that.
KRAUSHAARWell, as far as Lincoln's vice president, Andrew Johnson is the right answer. But as far as the Republican convention goes, I mean, look, the delegates had an opportunity to really make their opinions known. And they had an opportunity to say, look, this is such an extraordinary circumstance that we feel like we need to have (unintelligible) delegates, we need to have an open vote before the convention is held.
KRAUSHAARBut Party leaders have been -- throughout this whole process, even going back to the primaries, been very (unintelligible). They thought that if they upset Trump's supporters, it's just -- the downside is just too much. So there's been an absence of leadership. We've seen this from the beginning, all the way when Reince Priebus, the RNC chairman went to Trump Tower to get a piece of paper that says Donald Trump won't be running as an independent in this election. Well, I think if he had to do that over again that Reince Priebus would have made a much different decision.
REHMAll right. And here's another one that says, "Do the panelists see any parallels between the Democratic convention of '68 and this year's Republican convention in terms of the numerous ideological factions and lack of unity?
STOLBERGI think it's hard not to see parallels for other reasons, which is that the country was in such a roiling time in 1968. We saw protests and violence in Chicago at the convention that year. The '60s in general, we saw what happened in Dallas. Thrusting Dallas into the spotlight in a way -- with a sniper attack. And the way that it was when John F. Kennedy was assassinated.
STOLBERGSo it's -- for me, it's impossible not to see the parallels between now and the last era in the United States when we had this roiling civil rights debate. The president has tried to say that it's not a return to the 1960s, that we've made progress since then, that we're not as divided as we were then.
REHMAnd let me read to you a concern from a resident of Cleveland. David says, "Ohio allows both open carry and concealed carry laws. That is, it's legal to carry a gun both openly and to conceal it. I live in Cleveland. I'm concerned about the outside groups that have declared they are coming here and bringing their lawful guns." Abby?
PHILLIPI certainly don't blame anyone for being concerned about it. I think from the prospective of law enforcement, one of the reasons open carry is a little bit more concerning is because of what we saw in Dallas, where they are -- were in a chaotic situation, people were firing at them from an elevated position and they couldn't tell who was carrying a gun peacefully and who was not. And when people are carrying open long guns it is a huge concern to law enforcement, not only for that -- for them and their own safety, but for that individual. They could very easily be caught in the crossfire.
REHMAll right. Let's go to Jerry, in Baltimore, Md. Hi there.
JERRYHi, Diane. And thank you for taking my call. Definitely going to miss on the air and hopefully NPR can find somebody who can do you justice because we definitely need a show like this.
REHMLet's hope. Thank you.
JERRYYou're welcome. I have a different opinion on this. I really believe the "politicians" are painting too wide a brush. What happened in Nice was a lapse in security. Okay? And I say this because if you look at the video of afterward, the only barriers they seem to have had there were barriers for people, those little metal things, you know. If you look at the security prepared for our Fourth of July, and even in New York City, okay, no trucks or vehicles, other than a police vehicle, would be driving in any area like that.
REHMDoes Jerry have a good point, Josh?
KRAUSHAARI think that's very possible. It's hard to imagine how, when you have the streets closed off to vehicular traffic how a truck like that could get through. But, you know, France is also one of the -- has -- is one of the most militarized on-edge populations in the world, given all the terrorist attacks that have taken place there. So -- and they did have security for the parade, apparently, according to the news report. So it's not like they were totally caught off guard from the prospect of something happening.
REHMAll right. To Portland, Maine. Jim, you're on the air.
JIMHi. Can you talk about the difference in the reaction to Justice Ginsburg's comments about Donald Trump compared to Samuel Alito calling the president a liar on international television?
REHMI think what Alito did was to shake his head. Did he actually verbalize?
PHILLIPIf my recollection is correct, it was that in the context of President Obama's joint address. He shook his head in response to Obama's characterization of the -- of a Supreme Court ruling. But to the caller's point, I think that Justice Ginsburg got a lot of incoming after she did what she did. And it was sharply criticized by a lot of people because it was -- she went -- she was at length at criticizing the Republican likely nominee. And that's pretty -- it's pretty beyond the pale and not something that we often see from Supreme Court justices.
REHMAll right. Let's hear another view from Hannah in Cleveland, Ohio. You're on the air.
HANNAHHi, Diane. I love your show.
HANNAHI just wanted to say personally, I think this whole thing has been blown completely out of proportion. I mean, nobody's calling for Donald Trump to not run for president. After all, the extremely rude and really degrading, with no facts behind them comments that he's made about countless people, you know, and she comes out and she says a personal belief, which it is America.
HANNAHEveryone is entitled to their own opinion. And maybe that's what the position that she holds. It wasn't a great idea to say it, you know, as publicly as she did, but, I mean, to ask her to resign from the position that she's so respectfully held for so long, you know, like I said, especially after he has said so many horrible things about so many people that there was no reason to say. I just -- personally, I think this was, you know, just his way -- made way bigger deal than it should have been.
KRAUSHAARPerhaps. Though, there are some norms. Even though they seem to be few and far between. There are norms in politics. There are norms in how we do things in government. And for a Supreme Court justice to be as political as Justice Ginsburg was…
REHMExcuse me. Donald Trump has just announced on Twitter that he has chosen Mike Pence as his running mate. One hour before Pence had to make that final decision, Abby.
PHILLIPAbsolutely. I mean, I think -- and also five minutes before he had previously scheduled that he would make that announcement. I think that there was a lot of pressure on him, probably from within his family, Republican establishment, he had to make a decision, whether he announced it or not.
STOLBERGThe modern era of politics. A vice presidential nominee has been announced on Twitter. I mean, everything you've just said is correct. He gave him one hour. He's down to the wire. I'm interested and intrigued by what the reaction will be to the manner of the announcement. Because frankly we had reporting yesterday that this would be the choice. So the manner of the announcement is interesting to me.
REHMAnd you're listening to "The Diane Rehm Show." Does the manner of the announcement take away from the import of the announcement, Josh?
KRAUSHAARYeah, I mean, look, this is a chaotic -- chaotically-choreographed announcement. I mean, Donald Trump went out of his way to say he's not holding a press briefing -- press conference today to unveil Mike Pence, but he's tweeting it out online and essentially having the same impact. This is something that indicates a lot of chaos within his campaign organization. And it doesn't suggest that Pence is gonna have an easy time as his running mate being on page, being on message with the campaign.
REHMWhat do you think, Abby?
PHILLIPIt's interesting that both the postponement of the announcement of Pence and the announcement of Pence were done on Twitter. Which suggests to me that Donald Trump made both decisions the way that Donald Trump makes most decisions, which is on his own. There, you know, there's always a question of whether there's any political strategy whatsoever being put into some of this what we are calling theater. And that's important because it means that we don't always know that there's any grand plan. This is just as he's thinking it, he's doing it. That's very unusual.
REHMAnd he has announced he will hold a news conference tomorrow at 11:00 a.m., Sheryl.
STOLBERGI think what Abby said is very important, about a grand plan or this thinking. And this, you know, Americans want a steadiness from their president. Especially in times like this when we are in a world that feels very chaotic. People want to know what to expect. They want to look to the White House for leadership and for a steady hand. And I'm not sure that it accrues to Donald Trump's benefit to have canceled his announcement, then released it on Twitter, now he's having a press conference tomorrow. It's a whipsaw feeling for the public and for people who are watching this, at a time when we really don't need that kind of feeling.
REHMMany other people might regard this as exciting.
STOLBERGThey might. They might.
REHMThe excitement that Donald Trump brings to this campaign.
STOLBERGBut will it be exciting in the White House? Is it exciting as behavior of the leader of the free world. Maybe you can do it on the campaign trail. Donald Trump is doing it on the campaign trail. But is this how he will behave in the White House? And those are the questions that are gonna start being asked.
REHMIs that an indication of his style, Josh?
KRAUSHAARIt is. And then, look, even politically speaking, the whole positive view of how Trump was doing this "Apprentice" style was that there was going to be some surprise, that there was gonna be some element of really, you know, fooling the media of who he was going to be.
KRAUSHAARThis was as predictable as it got and it was done in a very clumsy way. So even the choreography, which Trump has been praised for with his experience in reality television. Well, he didn't exercise that in this VP pick.
STOLBERGMaybe it's predictably unpredictable.
REHMThat's how it sounds to me Sheryl Gay Stolberg, national correspondent for The New York Times. Abby Phillip, she's national political reporter for The Washington Post. And Josh Kraushaar, he is political editor for The National Journal. Thank you all so much.
REHMI want to let listeners know I'll be on vacation for the next couple of weeks. I'll be back with you on August the 2nd. You'll have lots of good people sitting in this chair in the meantime. Enjoy them. Thanks for listening, all. I'm Diane Rehm.
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